The Future of Humanity with David Houle
In this episode, Don MacPherson is joined by Futurist David Houle as they discuss the future of humanity. David argues that humans are at a fork in the road with one path leading to utopia and the other leading to oblivion. David and Don examine the forces shifting the future of humanity including climate change, AI, quantum computing, and biomechanics.
David Houle is a futurist, thinker, and keynote speaker. He is the author of The Shift Age, Shift Ed: A Call to Action for Transforming K-12 Education, Entering the Shift Age, Brand Shift: The Future of Brands and Marketing, This Spaceship Earth, and more. David is Futurist in Residence and Guest Lecturer at the Ringling College of Art + Design in Sarasota, Florida. He is Honorary President and Futurist of the Future Business School of China. He is also a Founding Member and Managing Partner of The Sarasota Institute - A 21st Century Think Tank.
Don MacPherson: [00:00:00] Hello, this is DonMacPherson, your host of 12 Geniuses. I have the incredible job of interviewing geniuses from around the world about the trends shaping the way we live and work. Today, we explore the future of humanity. Our guest is author and futurist David Houle. David believes human beings are at a fork in the road. One path leads to utopia and the other total oblivion. Where we end up will be determined by what we do in this decade.
Will we win the battle against climate change? Can we use tools like AI, biotechnology, and quantum computing in an ethical way that benefits humanity? Will companies and governments return a sense of privacy back to people without exploiting our data? These are just a few of the questions that David and I discussed.
David Houle is co-founder and managing director of the Sarasota Institute. His most recent book is called the 2020s in which he argues this will be the most disruptive decade in the history of humankind.
This episode of 12 Geniuses is brought to you by the think2perform Research Institute, an organization committed to advancing moral, purposeful, and emotionally intelligent leadership.
David, welcome to 12 Geniuses.
David Houle: [00:01:20] My pleasure. I'm happy to be here.
Don MacPherson: [00:01:22] Let's start out by talking about the 2020s. You've called it the most disruptive decade in history. What evidence do you have to reach this conclusion?
David Houle: [00:01:32] Well, I'm a futurist and I look at trends. Starting about four years ago, I realized that there were so many dynamics and trends that were going to intersect in this decade. This decade is going to be really transformative because of the magnitude of change, because of the intersection of so many historical dynamics, new forms of technology, the critical stage of climate change...
We have until 2030 to make major changes for climate change. We have until 2030 to fully understand how we're going to interact with technological intelligence — often referred to as artificial intelligence. We're going to be dealing with the complete, final mapping of the brain, neuroscience, for the age of intelligence, that's going to transform computing. Democracy and capitalism were formed in the late 1700s, and they need to be reinvented and updated for the 21st century. It's really clear on that.
So in almost any endeavor that humanity faces, it's kind of like the 2020s is the fork in the road between the future that we want to have and we want to create and we can, in fact, still organize around, or the more disastrous future of just going forward, unconscious or ignorant.
Don MacPherson: [00:02:59] I wanted to ask you about the shift age. I think that's a term that you coined, correct?
David Houle: [00:03:04] Yes.
Don MacPherson: [00:03:05] And you wrote a book called, Entering the Shift Age. What do you mean by "the shift age?" What is it?
David Houle: [00:03:12] In 2005, I had a transformative moment that made me realize I wanted to be a futurist. So I looked back from the vantage point of 2005 to say, 1975. So the 30 years since the information age got its name. And I realized that there were five things that had happened and one that was going to happen that just said to me loudly, and clearly that we'd enter a new age.
The end of the Cold War, the beginning of the global economy, analog to digital, personal computing, and the internet. Those five things. And I knew it in 2005, that there would ultimately be high-speed wireless. And so those six things told me that any three of them would trigger a new age. And then I started to think, well, what is this age going to be? And the prior ages were defined by product, agricultural production, or technology, and the shift age was going to be basically the time, roughly 2025 to 2030 give or take, that everything would undergo a shift.
So from the vantage point of here in 2021, if you just look back at the last 15 years... how we communicate is different, how we buy things is different, how we look at healthcare is different, how we look at education is different, how we do almost any aspect of our lives is different. So everything is in a rapid state of shift and the speed of change has accelerated from an accelerating throughline of history to an environment of change.
We live in an environment of change. All aspects of our lives are shifting simultaneously. So hence the name, the shift age.
Don MacPherson: [00:04:58] And getting back to the fork in the road. I think that's a phrase that Buckminster Fuller used back in the 60s. Could you describe what the fork in the road is?
David Houle: [00:05:09] Fuller said, utopia or oblivion, a fork in the road. And he wrote that in 1970, he said in several decades humanity will get to a fork in the road, he said utopia or oblivion. I translate that to mean into a future of abundance, creating the life that we — when I use the word "we" I mean, talking about humanity — the life that we want versus the life we're going to get if we don't take any action and let things go on unabated.
So this is really the decade. I've written a couple of books on climate change and all the research shows me that if by 2030, we haven't made fundamental changes in energy, transportation, farming... there might not be civilization by the end of this century. We've entered the global stage of human evolution.
And so what the 2020s is also going to be about, is how we move from the fork in the road and away from the us and them, the way we think. This has clearly shown up in American politics today, but the us versus them from nationalism, if we're in the global stage of human evolution, the fork in the road is to move towards that reality. That all the major issues today are global in scope. They're not national in scope. And that our collective future is based on all of us.
And McLuhan wrote in 1970 around the first Earth Day, there are no passengers in spaceship Earth. We're all crew. So you can say that this is the decade where we have to show up to crew the planet. Well, we have to show up to crew our collective future. And we have to move to a global perception to be able to do that.
Don MacPherson: [00:06:58] You mentioned This Spaceship Earth, and that was a book that you wrote, I think in 2016, is that right? 2015?
David Houle: [00:07:05] End of 2015, right.
Don MacPherson: [00:07:08] There's a section in it at the very beginning called the Quartermaster's Report. And it's quite frightening. And so maybe you could just give us the 2021 version of the Quartermaster's Report.
David Houle: [00:07:21] The quartermaster is the person on the ship who is responsible for reporting to the captain, the status of all aspects of what's onboard. Food, resources, people, stuff like that. So the 2021 quartermaster report is reporting on the status of the ship, in this case, the planet. What we know is that all of the indications that measure dynamic change in terms of the warming of the planet and the consequent climate crisis are accelerating.
The speed at which the sea level is rising is accelerating. The speed of species extinction is accelerating. There are currently about 150 species that become extinct every day. That includes plants and insects which is, depending on who you listen to, 1000 to 10,000 times the average norm over the last few millennia. The sea-level rise is happening at a faster rate this century than in recorded history. The heating of the planet was supposed to be kept to 1.5 Celsius. And we're already at 1.1 globally. And in some cases, the Arctic and Antarctic, we're at a multiple of that-- three and four degrees. Which means that you're seeing the ice melt in the Arctic almost completely now.
And 10 years ago, it was thought that the Antarctic ice shelf and all the glaciers on it would last for literally 900 to a thousand years. Five years ago, what is happening, hadn't been expected to happen for a hundred or 200 years. So it's now expected that the Antarctic ice might last for a hundred years. So what we have is degradation across the board for natural resources including water and species. So everything is accelerating at an alarming rate, and yet humanity is reacting to it at an incremental rate.
Don MacPherson: [00:09:37] That's a grim report. And I'm just wondering, is it possible for us to innovate our way out of this?
David Houle: [00:09:44] What we have to do is save ourselves, from ourselves. That makes it manageable. If we've created the problem. We can create the solution. The solution is going to be radical, dynamic, and urgent. I wrote a book as you know, in 2019, Moving to a Finite Earth Economy Crew Manual, where all the research showed that we need to move from 77% fossil fuel-generated energy globally in 2020, to 30% by 2030.
And the interesting thing Don is the research showed that 80% of all energy is consumed by the top 20 GDPs in the world out of 195 countries. So what that means is if just the top 20 GDPs moved from 77% to say 19% of energy from fossil fuels by the end of this decade. The 175 other countries don't have to do a thing.
So it's a matter of being smart and going where the change is most. And I do think we're going to have to have some technological or huge events, whether it's shielding part of the earth or putting clouds into the atmosphere to reflect the sun. We're going to have to do something. That's a high danger, but right now, the cost of not doing anything is much worse than whatever trillions of dollars of costs to rectify the situation.
Waiting is not an option because everything is accelerating as I mentioned. So the only thing we can do is to act with a sense of urgency. We have to do in the next 10 years the necessary steps so that there will be survival of the species into the next century. And there will be the maintenance of civilization as we know it in this century.
Don MacPherson: [00:11:51] From what you know, is moving from 77% to 30% in nine years even possible?
David Houle: [00:12:01] Yes, the problem is here's the example, COVID is the best example. Something happened a little less than a year ago that has never happened in history done. And that was March- April, billions of people went on a self lockdown for the first time in history. I would say 2 to 4 billion people did the same thing. That statement is true.
Before COVID there hasn't been 3 to 4 billion people that ever did the same thing for 30 to 60 days. And what happened? All of a sudden, the air became clear. You could see Mount Everest from New Delhi for the first time since the seventies. The canals of Venice became clear. The animals came out and roamed where only humans used to. The migratory paths were re-instituted. So what we showed is that if we stayed inside for 45 to 60 days, The world got better. We can do this. We just have to decide to do it. And we have to decide to do it collectively.
Don MacPherson: [00:13:15] One of the remarkable things about the most recent book that I read of yours, The 2020s, was your view on the future of capitalism, the future of democracy, the future of nation-states. You're arguing that these are becoming obsolete. Could you talk about why that is and what the replacements are?
David Houle: [00:13:36] All of our major issues confronting humanity are planetary in scope. Climate change, wealth inequality, migration, natural resources, degradation of the same, technology, and so we have to move to a "global we" consciousness versus "us and them." That's just one thing. The second part is how to reinvent capitalism and reinvent democracy. In the book I mentioned, Moving to a Finite Earth Economy Crew Manual, I said that capitalism has created more wealth and more material wellbeing than any other movement, power, process, category in history. And it is so powerful. I'm not against capitalism, I'm just saying let's reinvent capitalism to successfully face climate change.
Don MacPherson: [00:14:40] Where are we in terms of how effectively we're cutting emissions?
David Houle: [00:14:45] We're not.
Don MacPherson: [00:14:46] How would you evaluate that in terms of like a scale of 1 to 10 with one being a Bismal and 10 being ideal?
David Houle: [00:14:52] Somewhere between one and two.
Here's the thing Don, it's really good that Biden wanted to go back into the 2015 Paris Climate Accord. The problem with the 2015 Paris Climate Accord is you had to dumb down to the lowest number of levels to get most of the people. So you had to go down to an inadequate level of commitment to get consensus. The goal was to get consensus at all costs. So you got consensus, but at a low level, that's one.
Number two, it was done in December 2015. And they said this won't take effect until 2020. So they discounted urgency. The third thing that they failed on was every country had to set their self-imposed parameters for pollution. For 2016, 17, 18, 19 to 2020. And not one of them has met their self-prescribed number. They've all been over it.
So to me, the Paris 2015 Climate Accord is a total failure. It's good that America's coming back in because one of the problems of climate change, is America in post-WWII was fighting the evil empire of the Soviet Union. So it was incumbent on America to persuade the rest of the world that the consumer capitalistic culture was good. The American way of life.
Well, if everybody on the planet had the American way of life, we'd have five Earth's worth of resources being consumed. So the problem is we persuaded the world to live the way we have lived. And yet, now that we can see the consequences of that, it's morally unfortunate for us to turn to an India or Thailand say, "no, no, you can't do what we did." So the good news about going into the Climate Accord is America has to take leadership. America and Australia are both at 16 tons per person. Canada's at about 14 tons. You know, India is at about 2 tons of CO2 in the atmosphere per person.
So it's important that America make the most amount of changes as China should, as the EU should. Those that have the most amount, as I said, the top 20 GDPs have to make the change. And right now we've failed across the board.
Don MacPherson: [00:17:24] One of the things that I have found really interesting about your work is your talk on place versus space or the physical versus the virtual. Could you talk about what that is and why it's important to the future of humanity?
David Houle: [00:17:41] When I first started talking about the shift age, I said that there were two realities, the physical reality and the screen reality. And that the screen reality is where the future shows up. And that, for example in 2010, I said that there'd be a collapse of physical retail in the United States.
Why? Because I saw Amazon.com. on the screen reality. And it was Amazon.com that did it, not the infighting of all the competing brands in the physical reality. So the point is that COVID has accelerated into months, years worth of change. And so the place versus space comes up because we're in a connected space.
I live in Florida, so I see grandparents all the time talking to their grandchildren somewhere else in the world. And what are the grandparents doing? "Hey, grandma's here! Grandma's in my phone." They don't have any concept that there's a distance because they can talk to grandma every day on their phone.
So you can see that generationally where the baby boom and the Gen Xers were the last people that grew up in the sense of place and the millennials and the digital natives and now this new Gen Alpha are all digitally connected. So the place versus space means it is transformative in terms of consciousness.
It shows up in terms of generations. In other words, the youngest generation is most spatially connected. You and I went to high school and the only concern about our popularity was in our physical space. Now you have people coming into high school that have to manage their spatial relationships on social media and their physical relationships and the physical reality. So this is bifurcation.
Don MacPherson: [00:19:29] I also wanted to get into some topics that I have been thinking about. They do, I think, really impact the future of humanity. And that first one is around privacy, data, and manipulation with the massive amounts of data that human beings are creating right now. And the ability for tech companies, for governments to use that data to manipulate. I'd love to hear your perspective on what that can and likely will do to the future of humanity.
David Houle: [00:20:03] I always think that there's a good generational filter. So if you look at the generational filter, if you're a baby boomer or you're from the silent generation, the two oldest generations alive today, you have grown up with a sense of privacy. If you're a Gen X-er, you've grown up with a little bit less of a certainty of privacy. If you're under at the age of 40, you assumed that there is no privacy, right? The way the millennials and the digital natives share completely online, they don't care. Right? So privacy is really an issue for people who came to adulthood in the last century.
So privacy is gone. Then you get into the moral questions of surveillance. There's a double-edged sword with the government. We want the federal government to protect us from foreign actors, you know, from the Russians, from the Iranians, from the Chinese, and from criminals. And to some degree, we have to give up something to get that.
On the other hand, we don't want our government to spy on us. I wrote this in 2013 relative to the future of privacy, on the assumption that there is no privacy relative to outward actions. So quote, "privacy is what we cherish and hold inside us. It is our thoughts, feelings, and sense of individual self. We can have this privacy, whether in solitude or in the company of others. Privacy is an interstate of being. An awareness that provides both comfort and identity." So that's going to be privacy going forward. I can sit in a room full of people and have my sense of individual self private. But I can't make it private that I'm sitting in that room. So what you're doing is you're dealing away with all the externalities that used to be private.
Don MacPherson: [00:22:12] It seems like for all of humanity's success over the last 200 years, happiness generally hasn't gone up or if it's gone up, it's gone up only a little bit. Whereas life expectancy's gone up, child mortality has gone down, workplace safety has improved. All of these things have improved, but generally, happiness hasn't. Is there a place in the future for measuring happiness? What is our goal as humans? What should our goal be for humanity?
David Houle: [00:22:45] So happiness is a great barometer of why one is alive. The Dalai Lama, what's your spiritual advice? He says, "Be happy and treat everyone you meet as a friend." Okay. That's pretty simple.
I'm just going to give you some statements to answer. In a finite world, infinite growth is insanity. We live in a finite earth and yet we have an infinite growth. GDP measures only one thing, growth of economic output. You mentioned 200 years. 200 years equals the industrial revolution. So when the industrial revolution was created, it increased more wealth than anything else. There's more wealth created the last 200 years than in all of humanity before.
So the creation of wealth, of material wealth, if you source 200 years as you did, means that material wealth is directly correlated to non-happiness. So inherently happiness is about human wellbeing. And the beauty of COVID is that COVID made us not be... instead of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, the weekend, it was today, today, today, today, today. Right? So the externalities of life were no longer structuring our lives.
So people were making sourdough bread, baking, eating differently, working out, reading more books, having a desire for some meaning in life because we weren't relying on the externalities to give us that meaning. So there's an increase in meaning, there's an increase in spirituality, there's an increased desire for happiness, and there's an increasing realization, particularly on the part of the younger generations, that material wealth is not the end all be all. It's valid to say that the baby boomers, and to some degree the Gen X-ers, were the last generations that really believe that material wealth provided happiness.
Don MacPherson: [00:25:00] So do you think that we can make a transition from measuring GDP to measuring something a little bit more meaningful than GDP? Like happiness?
David Houle: [00:25:10] Yeah. I mean, I've written the books on climate, and climate is going to force us to do this right. You know, as Gandhi said, "we do not have the resources for everybody's greed, but we have the resources for everybody's need."
So once we move towards a humanity first, if you will... I oversimplify things by saying the 20th century was the left-brained century. The 21st century is the right brain century. The 20th century was the century of science. The 21st century is going to be the century of humanity. So, everything can be reoriented that way, you know?
America keeps falling lower and lower and lower in terms of happiness. The countries that are most happy, the top 10, are almost all either Scandinavian social democracies where the safety net is strong, or countries like Bhutan or Costa Rica that have a non materially oriented lifestyle.
Don MacPherson: [00:26:13] What should our population be? Because I read something, I think by Christopher Tucker, that, you know, we have a 3 billion person planet. Is that what our goal population should be?
David Houle: [00:26:26] His book is a must-read for anybody, A Planet of 3 Billion. It changed my way of thinking. The day I was born, there were 2.5 billion, so in my lifetime it's more than tripled. There is no way the planet can sustain that. The unfortunate reality about the climate crisis is that we have not aggressively openly dealt with population control and we have to. What happened in the 20th century in the United States of America, 6% population growth translated into 6% annual GDP growth.
So more population with more GDP right now, when everything is collapsing on the only planet we have, we have to change that. The good news is that at the same time that those populations went down, one of the reasons they went down is that from 2015 when there's 51% of the people alive in the world who live in an urban environment, by 2045, that's going to be 70%. But 51% of 7.5 billion versus 70% of 9 billion means that there are 75 million people a year, 2015 to 2045 being born into, or moving to, urban environments.
So it's an inevitable trendline for the future of humanity. Correlating with that is that women have a lower birth rate if they move to cities. So in other words, the average replacement rate of a population is 2.1 per childbearing woman, right? In cities, that's fallen to 1.5 to 1.4. So the education and empowerment of women will lower the birth rate.
So you mentioned Chris Tucker. I've signed on to support him, to try to get the birth rate, which is about 2 now globally down to 1.5 by 2030. Because if it gets down to 1.5 by 2030, then that still viable 9.5 billion by 2100 goes down to 7 or 6 if we flat line at 1.5.
So the argument is what do we want to do? Do we want to keep overpopulating the planet and therefore have starvation, fighting for water, fighting for food, 100 million climate change refugees every decade? Do we want that death and destruction or do we want to plan for it and have nobody die because of some violent deaths, because we've planned for it.
All the research shows as the population increases carbon pollution increases, degradation of the planet increases, it's just logical math, right? So I am completely of the view that we need to consciously, collectively, aggressively, face having a lower birth rate.
Don MacPherson: [00:29:37] Like you said earlier. Everything needs to be redesigned.
David Houle: [00:29:42] Along with two other futurists that I respect, I'm one of three initiators of a futurist-oriented project called the #ForkInTheRoad project. Our Buckminster Fuller said in his book written 50 years ago, utopia or oblivion, humanity will approach a fork in the road in several decades. We are here/there now, Don. Where we have to choose between utopia or oblivion. His words. Our words are, we have until 2030. There is a moment in time, it's called the 2020s, where there's a confluence of dynamics and trends and overarching issues that must be faced in the next 10 years. If we want to be able to create our future rather than mindlessly and ignorantly hurdling down the path of oblivion. Right?
So climate change, artificial intelligence, genetic engineering, privacy, reworking cities, transportation, energy, all has to be done. The big issues facing humanity have to be addressed. This is the decade. This is the fork in the road. If we successfully get urgent enough and collective consciousness enough that we have just this time we can create the future. This is the decade that will set the trajectory for humanity. Perhaps for the century, certainly at least to 2050.
Don MacPherson: [00:31:11] So based on what you know and based on what you just laid out for us, what is the future of humanity? Are we on the path of oblivion or can we get to utopia? What's your prediction?
David Houle: [00:31:24] Yes. And yes. That's why we're creating the fork in the road project. In other words, right now, we are cataclysmically rushing towards no civilization as we know it by the end of the century, given the situation with climate. No question. We are at high risk relative to what will happen with artificial intelligence. If we don't take a look at where we're going, we are at the intersection of technological, medical science capability, and morality.
We have the capability to clone humans today, by the end of this decade, medical science will be able to do practically anything. This is why we're futurists saying we have seen the future, we studied the future and we're bringing the future. The present is saying now is the time to face our future collectively in the most urgent and collective way we can.
It sounds really simple what I'm about to say. We're in the global stage of human evolution from family to tribe, to village, to city, to city-state, and nation-state. The highest evolved organization we have is the nation-state. And that is us and them. In order to face and create the humanity that could last sustainably for centuries and have it be abundant and utopian... right now we have to do as best as we can to anticipate what would happen if we continue along this path and provide options for the path that we're not yet taking. The fork in the road that is here very simply, we have to move from us and them to we.
Don MacPherson: [00:33:12] Will humanity someday be one being? What I mean by that is each individual human being is a cell, and we collectively work together. And as the cells die, new cells replace it and we advance but advance in a collective manner. So instead of us seeing each other as individual people, we see ourselves as one being, does that make sense? Like a single organism.
David Houle: [00:33:46] Not only does it make sense, it is the core of my vision of the future. So I believe that by the end of the decade, there'll be some people who are doing brainwave computer interface who have gone into other types of high level, focusing of the mind who've connected to like the next 10 generations of what Musk has in his neural language, his brainwave computer and brainwave material interface is going to ask... We're going to have a leap from evermore connected to technology, to an actual integration. Our next evolutionary step is the merger of humanity and technological intelligence.
The only fiction book I read when I went back and re-read all the futurists to become a futurist was Childhoods End by Arthur C. Clark. And it's basically about how man moves from individual, physical creatures to a collective consciousness that even became conscious. Now that is a bit far. And it goes beyond physics as we know it. But I absolutely believe in that. And so how do you do that? How can you get there? Do we want that? These are the questions that have to be answered by as many of us as we can in this decade.
Don MacPherson: [00:35:09] What can people do now to prepare themselves? You've talked about a great redesign or a redesign of everything that we know, democracy, capitalism ... all of these different things need to be redesigned. What can the individual do to prepare themselves so they can be ready for it at the highest level?
David Houle: [00:35:27] The only constant, the only truth, in the universe, in the galaxy, in the cosmos is change. Change is constant. If there was not change there wouldn't be time. Time is nothing but an axis on which change is measured.
So therefore you have to stand in the beingness of change. If you are resistant to change, if you don't like change, you have nothing to hold onto. Because reality is just an agreed-upon collective perception. The good news about that is the agreed-upon collective perception could be flipped to what we were just talking about --that collectivism is better, right? That's one. I always go back to rock and roll. Those not busy being born or busy dying.
Are you, listener to this podcast, actively busy being born? Are you waiting? Are you holding on? If you're waiting or you're holding on, you're going to become a victim. You're going to have a life of nothing but reaction. If you are busy being born, if you're embracing change, you will have the opportunity to evolve and to join and to move forward and to take advantage.
In the 2020s, there'll be more changes in this decade in any 30-year period. The flip side of that is therefore there is more opportunity and more room for growth and transcendence and self-realization than in any other decade in human history. It's up to you. And it's up to us.
Don MacPherson: [00:37:16] David, where can people learn more about you? Well, I'm pretty much everywhere if you type in David Houle and there's a bunch of David Houle's so then add on "futurist." You get pages in Google. So that's where to start. You can go to DavidHoule.com. From there, you can see the other things I'm working on.
David Houle: [00:37:37] All my books are available on Amazon, and I would suggest that even though I'm really proud of all the books, I've written, the books that I'm now writing, the ones that you've read Don, The 2020s is probably the most important stuff I've written. Because it's immediately applicable. Here's how to navigate the next 10 years. Here's what's going to come. Be prepared.
So DavidHoule.com is the single starting point, but just type my name into Google and take it from there.
Don MacPherson: [00:38:09] Awesome. We'll put it in the show page notes as well. David, fantastic conversation. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us and thank you for being a genius.
Thank you for listening to 12 Geniuses and thank you to our sponsor the think2perform Research Institute. The next episode will explore the future of social media. Our guest is Ross Dawson, a futurist joining us all the way from Australia. That episode will be released on April 6th, 2021. Thank you to our producer, Devon McGrath, and our research and historical consultant, Brian Bierbaum. If you love this podcast, please let us know by subscribing and leaving us a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. To subscribe, please go to 12Geniuses.com. Thanks for listening and thank you for being a genius.
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